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Inspire your entrepreneurial pursuit: The story of 6sense’s success, with Viral Bajaria

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Every startup has a story behind its successes and roadblocks.

Viral Bajaria, CTO and co-founder of 6sense, led 6sense through a transformation when the market was asking for something else — and succeeded beyond expectations.

Listen to this episode of The Intent Data Exchange to hear the story of how 6sense was founded and the factors that help shape its mission and global culture today. You’ll hear how 6sense customers are shaping what’s next with the platform and the advice he tells every entrepreneur like:

  • Challenging the status quo
  • What is takes to reinvent your business
  • A common oversight when your business is growing

Welcome to the Intent Data Exchange, a Bombara podcast. This is a show for sales, marketing, publishing, and data professionals seeking the latest insights from the B two B marketing ecosystem. You're about to hear a conversation about solving customer problems, reinventing, demand generation, leveraging intent data, executing account based everything, and much more. Let's get into the show. Find the businesses who are ready to buy before your competitors do, connect and sell using the industry's most comprehensive and privacy compliant buyer intent data. To learn more, visit Bambara dot com. Hey guys, welcome back to the Intent Data Exchange Podcast. UM. Your host Mike Burton. I'm a co founder of Bambara, and when we get together, we're trying to interview some of the leaders in the B two B sales and marketing space, and we learned about their journey, kind of how they got into the position that they're in and then kind of where they think the space is going. UM, and of course the show is brought to you by us here at Bambara. We're an intent data company in the B two B space and we help customers understand who's researching their products and services so that they can call them and show them ads and aligned to go to marketing resources around that signal and close more deals, make more money, generate more revenue. UM. So today I'm really excited we have we All Bahara on the show. He's a CTO and co founder at six cents um and Bambara has this great partnership with six cents um, and Viall takes us all the way back to the beginning, UM, when six cents was started. Bambara actually at a partnership with six cents way back then, and then for a while we didn't work together. And over the last couple of few years we've relaunched our partnership and it's been really successful for both sides. So we're all was good enough to walk us through the entire six cents story UM and just kind of how they reinvented themselves. That's some point along the way, and I think it'll be really interesting, you know, certainly for those who have entrepreneurial aspirations, UM, but also just to hear about where he thinks the space is going. UM. So thanks a lot. I hope you enjoyed the chat with her all. Hey, broall, welcome to the show. Thanks again for taking the time to join. Hey, Mike, thanks for having me. It's great, great to be here. Yeah, of course, Yeah, I'm particularly excited for this one, um, you know, just because we have a good, long history of working together as companies. UM, so I'm excited to hear more about the specifics of the sixth cents story and your personal journey and that type of thing. Um. But maybe just to get us started and give the folks in context, maybe talk about what your role is at six cents today and just kind of like what your day to day looks like and what're you know, what you're working on. Yeah, definitely, I mean it's it's a long journey. I'm cpoo founded at six cents um, and the journey started into any thirteen. And my day to day right now, I mean obviously it's changed over the years, but my day to day right now, I focus a...

...lot on our product roadmap, product strategy, a lot with partnerships and um and like it's we call this an ecosystem play and so work a lot around the ecosystem and talking partners like yourself too, and then um, uh and and then and then talk to a lot of other companies in this I mean the go to market space or revenue tex space has a lot of interesting companies and founders, so I talked to them to them also a lot about what they're doing and how they are thinking about this market. And so how are you finding I'm sure your your jobs probably like mine and that over the years and we get started around the same time. Um, it's like every year you pick up your head and you feel like you have a totally different job, Like your day to day is different, You're doing different things. Um is that true of you as well? And how are you finding this version of your job where you know you get to be thinking about higher level things like partnership, strategy, product roadmap, etcetera. Yeah, it's it's it's always interesting, right, I can try to evolve, when you try to like grow and and learn new things, it's always so I feel like it's been an amazing learning journey. But one thing I have found is when I reflect back in the past, like when we started as a founder, you were still talking to partners, you were still doing all this product strategy. But I feel like at that time, you know like you could. You can sit down and especially my back line, you can still write code right and you could always like, let's start doing this thing. It's so interesting and now at least the big changes, you have to tell yourself to not do that. Like you, it's it's a you. You let your team and you try to like give it to the team and say like, hey, this is what we're doing, why we are doing and let the team execute on it and not do it for them. Um. And so that's a very interesting switch that has happened over the years. Um because as as a technical person and who can write code any thing, you know, you're always eager to like just jump in and like no, let's not do it. Or even like when you're doing like partnerships and other things like hey, I will read the legal agreement. It's like, no, you don't need to do it. Somebody else will do it. Uh. And and so it's it's that's the journey that I feel like has been something when I reflect back, I had to teach myself and and do that. But at the same time, nowadays I get like to spend a lot more time I would say, on strategy versus before it was like execution, and before it was a lot on like hiring people. Also, now we have a big team in place, how we've hired a lot of leaders. So what you can do is your you can focus purely on strategy and then you just check in with the team and and and so you're always thinking long term. Yeah, and it's it's probably you say that it's good on you for having the self awareness to, um, you know, not jump in and do the work. And I have the same thing. Not because I'd be better at it. I probably wouldn't be better at it, but you won't be effective at it because you have ten other jobs to worry about or ten other things on your mind. So I could jump in and start a sales process or jump in and have one partner call or something like that, but if I tried...

...to do things all the way through, I would fail because there's just too much going on for that to succeed. That's right. And then you didn't create enough mics or you didn't create enough vidults in the organization, and then it did always need you. Yeah, um, so yeah, take us take us back. It's funny you say, I guess I would have guessed that at Bambora. We spun out of Medicine Logic in two but we were at it inside of Madisone Logic starting in twelve, so we really were getting started right at the same time on these kind of two different tracks and paths. Um, So maybe take us back to the beginning of yours. How how did you get into the space even before six cents started? Uh, it's funny by my background actually, and it is not at all B to be before sixth cents, I used to work at at Hulu right and I used to run the data platform data teams at who Do, and so it was it had nothing to do with B two B. It does purely B to see. And had some knowledge about the adult because we were we have our our own ad platform and it was very close with that team, so I had knowledge about advertising and other things. But but besides that B two B big no. In fact, when we started our company, which which was the original idea was to build a general purpose data processing platform and a data processing engine in twenty twelve or late twenty twelve, our idea was we will go after the devs and the product managers and and folks in the business side and we will probably make it such that we don't have to do a lot of sales. It's like all like try try it yourself and buy it, and like we don't want to go into B two B sales, Right, it was it was funny like we were thinking about it that way and where we are right now, which is like an enterprise software company with like helping not not only having our own big sales organization and everything, but helping every single sales organization out there. Right. So, so it's it's it's been an amazing journey and learning on the job about how this market has, how this market as evolved, what people need and everything. So it's been amazing that way when you hear more about all of that. Um but starting with Hulu, so I imagine the data platform at Hulu is largely in the name of advertising, so you're collecting data so that it can fuel different advertising offerings about right, So it was advertising, but also content and content with videos because we had our own content of like licensed content, and we were one of the few ones which were doing advertising and subscription together at that point, right, right, got it, And so how did you how did you go from that too? You know, it sounds like there was this part of sixth cents that I didn't realize existed. I'll ask you more about, but how did you how did you leave Hulu? And and kind of seizes the opportunity with six cents. So we went through in early days after Hulu, we went through y Combinator, and we entered y combinator for or...

...the idea that I had said, which was a general purpose data processing engine, and then we had built it out completely from scratch, and we said like, okay, a lot of companies need this thing because we had talked to a bunch of them before UH. And then we we wrote the code, we started talking to teams and and had like a bunch of initial customers and raised our funding to UM. But what we realized was we were getting pushed into UH selling into engineering teams more versus the product side and and the business side, and so it was becoming a nightmare to sell in. And so we had this common we see friend between me and that's when I met Amanda Amanda Calo, who was another founder at six Sense, and he said like, oh, you have this interesting data platform. Amanda has this amazing consulting business that she started and working with a bunch of customers, and she's found this business where B two B marketing and say it needs to start using a lot of data. Is similar to how BTC has been doing. But then she does not have a technical team to do this thing. So why don't you meet her and see if there is something that you like, if you like we were thinking about pivoting into something else, and at that point he's like, why don't you meet her and see? And so we were connected. We try to do a customer together and it worked fine on our platform and what we had built as a technology stag for data processing and machine learning. And and then we did be unthinkable at that point because everybody said, don't do it, don't merge companies, don't merge early stage companies because it always fails. And we for some reason had this you know, you know, like many times an entrepreneurship or when you start something, you know, it's like a lot of things go like what your gut feeling says versus what the data says at that point, and so we thought that, no, this is something we can do. We really liked what we were trying to do with Amanda and so we just came together and that's how six cents actually started. Wow, yeah, no, I didn't. I didn't know that. And so effectively six Cents became the first or in the exclusive apple pation of the technology that you had built. That's right, that's right. So we we completely sunset all the other customers. We said like, hey, we're gonna going in a different direction. We used a lot of the technology that we had built out and some of it even still runs. Some of it like it's it's probably changed a lot over time, but there is some some parts of it, like you know, they say, right, like that is the scaffolding that is there still, but the building looks different. And would you say, it's just Hey, you happened across paths with Amanda through this BC, and so you ended up in B two B or was there something unique about your the technology that you would built that made it especially kind of inviting for B two be? Like, was was there something about it that made it an even better fit from a tech perspective? Um? Not. Originally when we built it, it wasn't built for that. It wasn't like purpose fully build. And so that's what I meant by we changed a bunch of things to make it purpose for the purpose build for me to be like the concept of accounts and and and ying centers and everything came...

...later on to us. And so the because the platform was a general purpose data processing, what we could do and what we still do differently than what others do in this market is we have very good and ingesting data from a lot of different sources and then massaging that data, connecting that data, and then providing a single view on top of that data. UM. And so that that's that was our original technology and so that's why it's still there beneath the covers, and and we were able to scale it to um a tremendous amoe Like we processed like trillions and trillions of rows of data every month right now and so UM, so that scale came from that original text stage that we had built. Yeah, and it's this that attribute of what you had built, and we started all talking about us an ecosystem business and talking to partners and so you're still still certainly leveraging that that core trait of the technology and that you know you can you can explore taking lots and lots and lots of different data sets. Yeah, and that's it. I think even like, um, given that I have you also like we've we've gone so far, like you know, our journey and like with Bombardi's partners and how we do like you've seen like how we were able to jest like Bobora is like millions and millions of rows of data to and like ingesting that making it available for every single customer in time series fashion is not easy and um, and you saw like the hard work we had to go through to do that, but it was the technology that enabled it. Yeah, it so through I don't know, pick a day, maybe seventeen or something. Maybe a little later. It felt like the what we used to call the predictive space. I don't we don't call it that anymore, but we used to call it the predictive space. There were all of these players that were doing predictive UM go to had predictive go to market technologies. UM, it was very kind of muddy, confusing space in terms of who did what? Um, how did you guys navigate through that? Um? You know, I could I could rattle off a list of six companies you know who? I mean, how did you guys navigate kind of in the early days building a business. And also like just it was a completely nascent category. Yeah, totally. And in fact, if you'd even rattled off that list, probably none of those companies exist as standalone companies anymore. It's yeah. Uh. And so you know, um, I'll tell you like a funny story that happened and why we were different from the day one, Like when we built out this platform, because it was built for large scale and we were built particularly for behavioral data and time series data, right, that was our thing. Um, when you build this thing, and we tried to use this for b to be we got a customer or we got a prospect who said like, hey, yeah, I have this big problem. I need to do this predictive stuff. Um, we need to sign it, you guys. And so we got this account. I mean like, great, let's exchange day, let's connect my ideas, let's do everything. And then actually we got the first set of data we got as an attachment to an email m HM. And I was like, first Stan, I saw it, and I...

...was like, what did we get into? Because it was it was just a list of accounts, and and the second that was a list of leads and with some attributes on it, and they're like, we want to score this thing. And I was like, this is a this is a intern project, this is not a product, right uh. And and it could have taken me like a day to just turn it around to give it to them. It's like I was like, where is the behavior? Where is the thing that changes? Where when you know what we can do? And so that's what we do and B to see And so we always obeled for that, and so we always pushed our customers to B to see and from day one we were the that was our biggest difference. That's why it's sometime you will take us a lot while to onboard customers because you have to get all the behavior data right. So that's how we start and and and and you mentioned the right timeline. Seventeen, we were in that same predictive lead scoring bucket. I think when sixteen is when we realized that we need to break out of this pocket because what we do like can't be predictive. Um, it's how we do it is predictive to what we who has to be something's something that will be to be marketed or B two be seller cares about? Is what we should be doing. So we completely reimagined our product. We rebuilt the product from scratch again. That's gay that gave the um, that gave us what we call is the current sixth sense revenue AHI platform now, which was originally called the A B M platform. And and so it was that time twenty sixteen or the time when we looked around us and we were like, if we don't do something, if you don't change ourselves again and we don't re innovate ourselves again, we are going to be all these other companies and we can't be just a predictively scoring platform, right, And so did you because it sounds like you had the wrong materials to be something fundamentally different from the beginning even you know, but is it that the market at that time was asking for this simpler thing called predictive and you ended up kind of moving, you know, to some degree in that direction. Oh yeah, I think if the market in the beginning was asking me to and we had like a very good run. In fact, I would say, we knew that we had to change ourselves and we could we should build build something else. When we looked at our customers how they were using it, I think because we had really good growth in the first few years. UM, we just you know, like whenever there is this is like the fallicy. I tell every founder, every entrepreneur when I talked to them, when things are good, you overlook the data, you overlook what you should be doing, and and that's what you should not do. Because we could have gone down the path and rebuilt our thing when we knew it around twenty fifteen time frame only, but because things were great, we didn't do it, and we thought that this is just keep on going. And that's when we hit like a roadblock in twenty sixteen where we found like it was harder to go right now because the market is asking for something else, and so then we had to rebuild it at that point to give us just from a high level, goes on, they need to reinvent yourself. What if you had to characterized kind of what you were before and what you became shortly after.

So yeah, so I mean, I think it's a very easy example. I gave recently to somebody. It was UM twenty before this reimagined, we were predictive platform, as in you required the models to go life before we can do anything in our system. So we had to build all this system like data sync called the data. So sometimes we could be a customer and you give us the data and it could be like thirty days, ninety days, depending on the customers. One customer didn't give us data for eight days. You buy something and you can't use it, and then we're like, okay, this is not good. We need to get value today day one. Value. That's what we need to do. And and so what we did is we just took all the as you said, all the things that we had, which is we had all this website anonymization that we could do. We had our own intent data that we could do. We can we can our we had like our own account data. Way, so we built a UI which was more like, hey, don't wait for predictive. You can start using it on day one. When predictive comes, everything will become better. And and so we said, like, let's start doing use cases like advertising, use cases without predictive, like your lead lead enrichment without predictive. Let's start doing all those things. But when predictive it will come. You can make everything better. Was how we did it. God who is the effectively using the just using the materials that you you could you could use for a really fast time to value. UM. But I think also in there was this idea of broadening the capabilities and being able to like UM, you know these it's not just the materials that that you have at hand and making those available immediately, but UM building new features and functions that help customers act on that. Like you mentioned lead Enrichmond, that's right, that's right, Yes, that's that's I mean, we were a system that before that, we were a predictive lead scoring system. So we were pushing our scores into every other system that existed, right, and so we had we had zero visibility into use cases and launched us use cases and every think. And so what we did is we said, okay, we need to bring on activation on to our platforms so we get full visity the worldflows have to be in our platform and then we can still push into other platforms, but we have to know what the customer is doing. Got it? And then too with this turn, UM like the turn and then it was just kind of up, up and away, and you've been on that path, UM ever since. Or maybe take this into you know, the next phase and and and what's evolves since then. Yeah. So when we did that seventeen and we had like, um, we even changed out, like we got Amanda had decided at that point like, hey, I don't want to build the sales team again. I have better off doing strategy and speaking. And so she took a back seat into that. And then we hired Jason same Typos our CEO. Uh. And so Amanda was still there for some time with us, I think two or three years almost after that. And um and then and then when we we rehired our sales team customer successory vamp, everything was done and once we a bunch of the things that we had in terms...

...of enablement, customer use cases and everything. Uh. And since then it has been up, up and up for us, Like we've been five straight years of growth now and and um and just um, I still feel we're still getting started because um, we've done a bunch of acquisitions in the last year. Um and and and kind of like laying what we call it was our next um next evolution, right or the next innovation that we wanted to do. Yeah, and you can definitely feel the momentum. You know, obviously we have a great partnership so we can we can see it firsthand. But I think just in the industry, you can feel the momentument what you guys have built, and it's good to get, you know, the story behind it, because from the outside you could just say like, oh, they're just they're just getting a lot bigger and clearly the go to market machine and muscle um seemed to like m have a lot more rigor and kind of like you know, it just seemed bigger and badder. Quite frankly, Uh oh, yeah, we have a coupled with the product break through, the light bulb around where the product needs to go. It feels like those two things kind of came together at the same time. Yeah, that was I call it like that. In seventeen that was a hill mary because product and go to market everything had to come together at the same time. It's you know, it's funny sometimes, you know, like when as a founder and when you build a tool like this. Prior to seventeen, we so many times were ourselves struggling to get our go to market team to use the tool. But since we changed it and we made it a requirement that our go to market team has to use it, and since then it has never looked. I mean we've we've crushed every single metric and numbered every time we wanted to do because we have like the best users of all the tool. Like I think Latney wrote that book, which was again a thing. The reason to write the book was to make sure that people understand this is the best way to use six cents and we are the best users of it, and let's show you how to do it. That that turn that you made from a product perspective, there's there's something really interesting in there. And I think there are a lot of founders and entrepreneurs they don't make that turn, and they it's stuck, um kind of in a stubborn way down a specific road that they can't quite let go of. So maybe take us into like how you guys had the awareness to let that light bulb go on and and kind of make that change, and how difficult or not difficult it was to have that realization. Yeah, I mean I think, as I said before, we had that realization, and I think we were stubborn to to make the change in the beginning, Like you know, like we probably lost as I said, a year when we knew that we had to make it, but didn't make it. And again it goes back to us. You're saying, you have the information, you have the data, but things are looking good for you, and then you don't end up changing, right, and you don't end up like challenging. I always say, challenge the status quo, right, and we just didn't do that, um. And I feel that's a learning and every founder and every entrepreneur or any any executive should always think about it that let's challenge the status quo um. And so so that's what we did. UM. I think one one part that I feel for a...

...challenge perspective was like, was it hard to change? I don't think when when we had proposed the first time, I think there was some pushback on it. If I remember exactly right now, and the reason why it's like, hey, should we really make this change? We're doing good right now? Right? And and then when the time came when we're like, okay, no, we we didn't do good for that quarter and we had to think about it. We said like, hey, remember this thing that we came up with six months, seven months, seven months ago, UM, we should reconsider it. And then when we said that reconsider it, any put it out there, and then we started showing it like what is possible with it? I think then there was just no pushback. Yeah, it's like getting into the you know, just getting a little momentum in the virtuous cycle around a specific idea or a place that you need to go. I can completely relate to Reinvention is daunting. Change is daunting, and the bigger you are, the more daunting it is because you have a whole team of people that are comfortable with the way things are. But if you can just get a little bit of momentum going in the right direction, it can be really, really galvanizing. So it's it's it's congrats that you know you guys were able to go through that. It's I'm sure it was a very fun part of the stage. Yeah, it was fun and scary too, but fun too. I think you have to have fun. If you don't have fun, then you're not going to do it anyway. So well well said. So what's next for you? You know what's next? Where where do you guys want to take the platform next? Where do you see the space of the industry going? Yeah, so we um, we've already said something in there which is like we've changed our things from an A B M platform to what we call is a revenue we call it reft tack before. We're calling a revenue AI now. And the reason we do that is because originally, if you think about where we were and where we started, we did a lot of top of funnel new business and other things around it right, and we focused a lot on behaviors and then in market prioritization, advertising enrichment like those are use cases we focused on. We didn't do, oh we we didn't like we were helping send the right emails and everything, but not really personalizing emails. So we just made our big bet on UM what we call is the next generation of email for us or for me to be marketing and even like B two B revenue teams where the email is not a templated email with like just mail merge to replace the first name, last name, and some other like key elements, but the email is actually fully written out personalized to that individual UM and and use new age technologies to do that. Like, there is a lot of stuff that is happening in the in the world of AI, with companies like open Ai doing what what we call our GPT three models where you can do like language models and then generate a lot of text around it by just giving it some inputs. And we think we can. We've already done it. I mean, we already have sales where we made that acquisition and we're integrating it right now as in and we a...

...lot of beta's going on with amazing success right now. And and so I think that next generation email for us is going to be big. And we've interviewed so many customers so far, but everybody says like, hey, I'm using marketing automation, but I don't think I'm using it right. I'm just using it like as a blast email. And I want to do better email. I want to do less email, but better emails. And I want to like respond back when somebody asked me a question and not give it to a human, right. And we saw a lot of like request from our customers saying like use this data that you have used the intense data that is there, um and and right there email. So so I feel like we are we're on the right back there and that's our big back there from an email perspective. So that's one yeah, and I know you guys, I don't know how recently. Maybe you can tell us when you launched your your DSP and your advertising platform. But it feels like this idea of taking the core intelligence and extending it to as many channels as possible UM is a priority for just a strategic perspective. Oh yeah, so I was going to say about the advert that the DSP actually the fun that was our first use case that we launched in tween. So we built the DSP from scratch then and then we kept on it, treading on it. I think even like having partners like Bobora in there, which has helped us like do all the targeting and persona targeting and everything has been really amazing, and making the data available to customers has been awesome. Well, where we are going with the DSP also is the DSP was only meant for the programmatic advertising, right like the bidding side of it, right like in the open web. UM. What we're launching in the next few quarters now is going to be what we call is our first iteration of an omni channel advertising experience for B two B where you can launch programmatic, you can launch uh closed networks like Facebook, LinkedIn, Google, everything from one platform itself and and or my my like vision and like I always say, like you know, like think big. My think big idea was you give your list of accounts and you say, I want to spend next money for it. I don't care where you spend it, and let the system spend. Don't every single any of these systems and and optimized based on where you see the best performance. It is like it seems like you have pieces of that now. So how you know, like a like a salesperson should how long until we can start selling that? Now? How far away do you think you guys are from my vision? I think we are still I would say a little over a year of it. Yeah, it's still they are still delivering. Like the what I call is like you know, as you said, the pieces have to be there in place. Some of the pieces are coming in place right now. We will see enough usage of those pieces and then start breeding. I think we can start breeding now and then before it becomes bet out, like as you said, like a salesperson who can send it it will think at least a year before it comes oufter. And and so that's one area of focuses. It sounds like just um getting the central intelligence piping through as many channels as possible. Um, what about the central intelligence itself? Like we have this great partnership because it sounds like you know, it doesn't sound like it's like religiously...

...and strategically, you guys believe, Hey, more intentata is good. Bombara has this really unique special intent data that makes our product better. Um, So maybe talk a little bit about that philosophy around not just intentative, but all of the different data sets that you like to aggregate or acquire in and how you guys think about building that central intelligence part of what you do. Yeah, and and and and and and you know, like Bombora, it took us to even I know it. We won't have gone for so long. And then it took us a while to get to this thing because um, people still think like, oh, it's intent. Intent is one thing like oh I use bombarda, I should not use six cents or I use six cents, they shouldn't use Bombarda. I I go on and tell people like, that's the wrong way to think about it. Your buyers, you and I don't control better our buyers do. Research the kind of relationships that Bombara can build and the kind of relationship with six cents can build. It's a vent diagram. There will be some where we have and you don't have. There are many that you have we don't have, and they'll be an intersection. But as a as a user and as a as a business who wants to use intent data, you have to go and find the best that helps your business. And when we did list analysis of data between six Cents Bombora, we found, like the vent dive, the intersection is not that big and so customers should be using both. And if if that's the thing, like we took a step back and said, why why make it hard on the on our customers to use the best? Why not partner with Bombora and why not bring that data in So we with with the bombarda partnership, we build the framework for how do you bring any kind of intense data into it? And so even other closed walls right like G two and trust radios and all these other things they never go to, like they have built their business on this data. Like to have that data in one platform and and then letting our customers use the right things is what our vision was. And we started doing that a year and a half two years ago and it's now fruit. We have all these things in place and customers can use it right away and we'll keep on continuing on it. So like that's like how I see for intent. And we we had the same idea initially for contact data. We would do the same thing, but then we found it is harder, and we had like a partnerships with account with the contact data vendors, which we found like they wanted to go down their own route, so we had to three think and that's why we acquired a company. We acquired somebody in this space last year, and and we are building our own contact database and we're also building our own account intelligence where it's uh formographic, technographic and all the other data around it, like psychographic. Right, that's the big part which nobody has. And it's like when I'm a seller, When you are a seller, Mike, you want to write to me. If you know what six cents cares about as a company, and if you know like what weird All cares about as a person, and you personalize that email, the chances of getting an open on it is very high. And if you also know my behaviors, then the chances even become higher. And so now those three data elements together with that sales wil email thing that I said, like, we want to just connect all these things together and then personalize the...

...email using that data. And that's what we think will become like this intelligence layer which powers the use case, but it is kind of transparent to the buyer transferring to the customer, and we take care of everything in that. Yeah, it makes it makes good sense. I mean because as much as we're talking about you know, who to call, the reality is, you know, for many much calling is it's happening. There's a lot of email that's still like the main way that an str you know, might reach out to a to a prospect that we think is in market. Um So, like innovating in the email space is really interesting, and I would I don't think there's a lot of it happening. Um so there's maybe a green field free there as well. Yeah, it's never happened. Actually, I I say B two B email and and anything related to be to be email has like what's it gets sent in an email is still from the early two thousand's, right, it's not or even mid two thousand's maybe, And the B two C email space has innovated so much, and I feel we lagged onto B two B side and and I think that's gotter. We feel like we can actually come in and bring a new perspective. Yeah. And I think data like the market understanding of these unique forms of intent data and how they're all important. Um, I think we'll get there. I think that's just we're on this journey as an industry, and I think that that's part of the end. Destination is well, it's part of the next iteration, No, destination, it's it's the evolution, yeahalization that it's like, oh, yeah, this why you know, I think the light bulb has already gone on for like, Okay, I have my intent data from my own website, and then there's this thing called third party intent data. And I think the next step will be understanding that there's these different types of third party intent data that are highly distinct. Not you know, this idea of like, oh we do it differently, or are we take a different approach than they do. It's like no, we're witnessing different research and it's all really important. Um. And I think ultimately that's going to come clear because ultimately that's what's going to get people into deals that are closing faster at higher uh A, sps, etcetera. I'm taking faith that's that's it's there. Some off it is already there without a partnership, and they're more coming. So I'm pretty sure we'll be there soon and then we will all be talking about the next evolution after that. Right. Yeah, Well this was really awesome. Um, you know, thanks for sharing all the history and that the story is. You know, I learned a lot a lot of things I didn't know in there. Um, so again, thanks so much for taking the time. Oh, thank you, thank you for having me. Thanks. You've been listening to The Intent Data Exchange a Bombarder podcast. Keep connected with us by subscribing to the show and your favorite podcast player. If you like what you've heard, please rate the show that helps us keep delivering the latest in the B two B marketing ecosystem. Until next time.

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